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  #46  
Old 09-03-2002, 09:57 AM
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Glori Glori is offline
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Re: YHWH Saved!

Michael,

I am not writting this post for you to answer, but rather consider. We can exchange more later.

I want to tell you that I perceive that you are a man of sincerity and integrity, with real and true love for YHWH, and a solid knowledge of scripture. For that reason I wish to make my position known to you.

First and foremost, I share your deep adoration and praise of the one true G-d YHWH, and want with all my heart and soul to honor HIM in my life in a manner acceptable to HIM. I have been, and am now, willing and prepared to seperate from anything and everything that seperates me from the truth.


My story begins as such; I was born into a Christian family, so believing in Jesus is part of my roots. I was an unwanted child and therefore an unhappy child. I was told that Jesus loved me so much that he died for me, and that was all I had to cling to. If only in that way, he did save me from utter despair. Since that is not an easy thing to let go of, I carried my belief in him with me through growing up.

At a certain point in my life, as I had been led to believe that "with G-d all things are possible - through faith in the name of Jesus", I prayed for help in a very difficult situation, and did not get it; I was devistated. I was between wondering why he would not help me when I had full faith that he would, and wondering if he really even existed.

It was then a case of "need to know", and I was drawn to see what the Bible had to say for my self. I read it through once, and did not comprehend it, but I did know it did not seem to support my pre conceptions. I realized that there was significance in "sevens", and with that I essayed to read it six more times in rapid succession, and that developed my memory to the point that I knew collectively what it said.

With that, I went on to study the true history of the faith along with a continued study of scripture, and learned and knew that the Jesus of the Christian faith was not the Messiah, but rather an invention of the opposers of the true faith that 2 Cor.11.4-13-15 warned of, and that was via the New Testament itself being completely defaced by hidden facts of history(Luke 8.17) and misinterpretations(2 Pet.1.20).

Truthfully, the enemies of the faith knew that the promises were to Israel, and that YHWH had closed there eyes, supposededly for the purpose of bringing the Gentiles into the faith (Rom.11.25) so a doctrine was cleverly devised in effort to deceive the latter day inheritors (Ez.22.16, Heb.9.28). 2 Thess.2.11-12 agrees with Ps.57.6 & Isa.19.14 that YHWH turned the tables on them and "sent a strong delusion, that all those who love not the truth might be damned". That was for the express reason of exposing those very enemies in the due course of time, because they were and are hidden among the true children in all races(Isa.14.13-14).


Of course there is no way the Jews can accept a Jesus that violated everything YHWH said, or that claimed to be equal to him when he said clearly that HE had no equal. I will say that I came to realize that the Yeshua of the New Testament did not claim to be all of, or other than YHWH, but rather he claimed to be "the finger of YHWH" (Luke 11.20) that "finished" his word(Zech.4.9&6/ Jn.17.4-8). In truth neither Yeshua or his Apostles violated or condoned the violation of the Tenach, they all kept it to the hilt. That truth is found in researching the calendar of christians, because it was via the adoption of the Roman calendar after the Apostles were dead that caused the Christian faith to split from Judaism.

I came to believe that as scripture says, Yeshua brought the promised spirit via words from YHWH (Isa.59.21, Jn.6.63) that once written (Ps.40.7, 68.11) then engrafted/eaten(Jn.6.51, Jas.1.21), would supply the quickening spirit spoken of in Psalms 104.30, 119.37-38-40-88-95-107-154, 71.20 and 80.18. Bringing in the words from YHWH, and the giving of the spirit, was the finishing of the work of creation.

I believe that we are now in the time that Deut.32.20 speaks of, that YHWH is hiding his face to watch our latter end, as Deut.32.5 speaks of those "whose spot is not the spot of his children; they are those that have corrupted themselves and become a crooked and perverse generation". I believe that is in reference to the Jude 12 "spots on our feasts of charity", and that as Ps.37.10 foretells, a time is coming when "the wicked shall not be, neither their place will be found". JEr.17.6 "they will not see when good comes", when as Ez.36.11-14 says "YHWH will resrote us to our former estate, and better than, and the land will no more be called a destroyer of man". OH happy day!!!

I must tell you that Christians are far more opposed to what I believe than Jews, and that speaks volumes...

With that, I am now ready to continue considering the name of YHWH. I will go back to your previous posts, and take more time looking into the scriptures you have pointed out.

Praise YHWH, the G-d of Jacob, the G-d of glory

Glori
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  #47  
Old 09-03-2002, 11:37 AM
Thummim Thummim is offline
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...Glori, I wish you lots of healing. The thought that I want to leave with you, is that YHWH did pardon his peoples sins and cast them into the depths of the seas.

...X-tianity does not want you to know what the following verses of text say. For they heap up guilt upon the new faith of "christianity". The verses of text below speak of a righteous people, made so by their Eloheems will. {Isa. 43: 25} "for his namesake"

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21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for YHWH hath done it: {already} shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for YHWH hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

24 Thus saith YHWH, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am YHWH that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;

26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:

27 That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

--> {keep an eye on paragraph markers not shown in this posted text - "use your bible"}


Chapter 45

1 Thus saith YHWH to his anointed {messiah}, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates {of Babylon}; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee {Cyrus} the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, YHWH, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am YHWH, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I YHWH do all these things.

8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness {and salvation} spring up together; I YHWH have created it.

9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

11 Thus saith YHWH, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith YHWH of hosts.

14 Thus saith YHWH, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

17 But Israel shall be saved in YHWH with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

--> {Note that the salvation above is everlasting and reaches unto the end of the world, and it begins in the same paragraph as that in which Cyrus is named}

18 For thus saith YHWH that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am YHWH; and there is none else.

19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I YHWH speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I YHWH? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. {swear what?}

24--> Surely, shall one say, in YHWH have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

25 In YHWH shall all the seed of Israel be "justified" {tzadek --> righteous}, and shall glory.

...The above gives righteousness to YHWH's people. But christianity is not allowed to believe in JEWish righteousness. In the time of Cyrus, we find a righteous people which never lose that righteousness. What does that make of "Jesus?" Isa. 54: 9 gives this righteous people an Eloheem that will never again be angry with them. The first three verses of Isa. 54 pin that salvation to the time of reinheriting the desolate lands of Israel, following the decree of Cyrus. Believe that the name of {***YHWH ---> "YaHudaH"} is a righteous name. "Jesus" should have built upon the rock of David. {YaHudaH *Ex. 28: 21*} The righteousness that YHWH makes for his people, is disallowed by the faith of Rome. The Roman church has made a new name {JESUS} to displace the name of YHWH which has been taken from the letters in the name of the tribe of David. The tanakh is as JEWish as the name of its GD would imply. The eternal salvation of Isa. 45: 17 is in the same paragraph as that in which the name of Cyrus is declared. {Isa. 45: 1}

....Michael
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  #48  
Old 09-08-2002, 05:23 PM
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Glori Glori is offline
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Hello Michael

I am studying all that you provided me with. I was going to print it all to make it easier, but my printer ran out of ink, so I will have to make a trip to Staples.

Just a few questions for now; I had been told that Cyrus referred to a gentile type Messiah, can you enlighten me on that.

Next, how do you pronounce the name Joshua in the greek language.

Someone on this board said that Yahudah was the name of Gd's praise. Would that name be appropriate to Psalms 30.12?


Thank you, and happy New Year

Glori
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  #49  
Old 09-09-2002, 12:30 PM
Thummim Thummim is offline
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Glori writes;

Just a few questions for now; I had been told that Cyrus referred to a gentile type Messiah, can you enlighten me on that.

...Cyrus is spoken of as YHWH's "anointed" messiah. It is he that will free the prisoners from the pit. I will list a few verses that pin Cyrus to the text of the tanakh.

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2 Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. Isa. 41: 2

25 I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon mortar, and as the potter treadeth clay. Isa. 41: 25

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. Isa. 44: 28

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1 Thus saith YHWH to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, YHWH, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am YHWH, and there is none else. Isa. 45: 1 - 6


11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. Isa. 46: 11

...All of Isaiah's forty-seventh chapter speaks of what happens to Babylon through Cyrus. Isaiah's fourty-ninth chapter must also be refering to Cyrus, if we parallel verse nine to Isa 44: 28.


5 And now, saith YHWH that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, {Babylonians vs Assyrian captivities} yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of YHWH, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the "Gentiles", {actually the "Nations" of Israel} that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. {where Israel is scattered}

7 Thus saith YHWH, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of YHWH that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

8 Thus saith YHWH, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. Isa. 49: 5 - 9

...The prisoners which leave Babylon are compared to sheep. They need a shephard, who is named "Cyrus" their messiah in Isa. 44: 28. YHWH is the redeemer of Israel, and frees his people from their captivity through Cyrus. So is Cyrus the man that nations abhor? {Isa. 49: 7}

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city {from Isa. 44: 28}, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith YHWH of hosts. Isa. 45: 13

...A messiah is a deliverer. Cyrus fits the mold, but "Jesus" precedes the slaughter of his people. In the faith of YaHudaH, both the priesthood and the throne are "anointed" to serve YHWH. Cyrus is "YHWH's" anointed king at this time. There is no other. I do believe that so many connections to Cyrus can be made in the text of the tanakh, that it would bewilder all christians to see the connections. It's like weaving a tapestry out of the texts of the tanakh. One simply stiches one verse of text, to another. Two verses to pin together are these below.

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10 Go through, go through the gates {of Babylon}; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.

11 Behold, YHWH hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of YHWH: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken. Isa. 62: 10 - 12


1 Thus saith YHWH to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates {of Babylon}; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight {and prepare the way}: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, YHWH, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

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Glori, this is only a little imformation on how "Cyrus" connects to the text. It requires the paralleling of text to see. I'm not reliable with greek to tell you what Joshua means in greek.

Glori writes;

Someone on this board said that Yahudah was the name of Gd's praise. Would that name be appropriate to Psalms 30.12?

You turned my lament into dancing,
you undid my sackcloth and girded me with joy,
that [my] whole being might sing hymns to You endlessly;
O YHWH my Eloheem, I will praise you forever. Ps. 30: 12, JPS

...I would say yes. "Praise YaH" is buried throughout the tanakh in every possible fashion. "Praising YaH" is acknowledging his name. It is also acknowledging GD's people.

O YHWH our Adonai, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. {by corupting the fourth day of creation in putting it out of the proper order}

2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength {through their "praises"} because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. Ps. 8: 1, 2

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2 But unto you that fear "my name" shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. {released from it}

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet {the ordained strength of Hashem} in the day that I shall do this, saith YHWH of hosts. Mal. 4: 2, 3

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...Its all about connecting the verses of these texts together in the right order. Now you know that the sacred name is "Praise" to YaH. And his people inhabit his "praises". {see Ps. 22: 3}


9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.

10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. Eccl. 12: 9 - 11

Baruch Hashem! ....Michael
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  #50  
Old 09-09-2002, 09:38 PM
tonyshaw tonyshaw is offline
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to thummim & gloria:

I do not wish to interrupt your thread here. I cannot even come close to the depth of study you are into.

But it seems logical and obvious that:
Either Jesus is God, or he isn't.

If the New Testament can be accepted at least on the level of a historical document about what people said and testified to witnessing, then you at least have someone at that time period named "Jesus" who went around telling everone he met that he was God, and that eventually this cost him his life.

So, either Jesus is God, or he isn't.

If Jesus IS God, what does this mean for
:: those who do not believe Jesus is God - do they miss out?
:: those who do believe Jesus is God - then they have it right?

If Jesus is NOT God, what does this mean for
:: those who do not believe Jesus is God - then what is right?
:: those who do believe Jesus is God - How are they hurt?


These are the (my) logical ends to the main question:
Either Jesus is God, or he isn't.

And a final thought is this:
"Just because I believe in something doesn't make it true. I do not have the power to make reality match my thoughts, only God can do that."

Before airplanes were made and flown, it was a common occurance in those days for people to try various means of flight by jumping off of cliffs in their contraptions and inventions. Some would even believed it was a matter of will, jumped off the cliff, and "willed" themselves to fly. The truth of gravity brought them to reality. They died at the bottom.

Consider those four (4) ending possibilities. For myself, I believe that Jesus is God, and I need no "logic" to convince me - I take it as truth simply on faith. I believe somewhere in the NT that it says that God gives us the measure of faith we need to believe.

I always have a wish for everyone on earth, no matter what you believe in (and of course I will first share with you the gospel of Jesus) that if you choose not to believe in Jesus, I wish for you much happiness and success in this life. Because, according to Jesus, if you do not approach God and heaven through him alone, you will not make it to heaven. Therefore, since this would be your only chance to experience happiness, I would wish you much happiness - though I feel saddend by the thought of anyone not being able to spend eternity with Almighty God.

Again, sorry for interrupting. Continue your debate . . . . .
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  #51  
Old 09-10-2002, 12:02 PM
Thummim Thummim is offline
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Lightbulb The name of "YHWH" is stricken from the New Testament!

tonyshaw writes;

Because, according to Jesus, if you do not approach God and heaven through him alone, you will not make it to heaven.

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...This statement is why I refute "Jesus" as messiah. It seems strange that a JEWish messiah would be more about cursing his people, than blessing them. So the JEWish people, whose name is YHWH {a partial name comes from a complete name as (*thummim - "it completes"*) implies} are cut of from heaven? Isn't that like banning the name of YHWH from heaven?


6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. Isa. 52: 6

...{YHWH will come in his own name} The NT is not built upon the name of YHWH and nowhere in its pages is the sacred name revealed. {John only says that it is in his 17th chapter} But where is it? Sixty-five of the sixty-six books of the tanakh have included the sacred name. The book of Esther is the exception and this book is where a plot is hatched to distroy the name of YaHudaH. Why did the NT 's writers choose not to include the name of YHWH in its book? Did the early church know where this name comes from? {excluding it is a way of excluding the JEWish people, "YaHu' "W"daH", Yahudah or Judah}

4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Beth-el, and there he spake with us;

5 Even YHWH God of hosts; YHWH is his memorial. {how he is to be remembered from Ex. 3: 15} Hos. 12: 4, 5

...Isn't it strange that the NT has stricken the memorial of YHWH's name from its texts? Do you want to trust a book that calls a man its god?


9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

....Michael
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  #52  
Old 09-11-2002, 10:43 AM
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Glori Glori is offline
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Tonyshaw,

You are by no means interupting, this is an open forum and your input is welcome.

I would briefly like to inform you of something that you do not know; That son of maiden Mary was not named Jesus, his name is "Yeshuah", which is Greek for "Joshua" {Jehovah is salvation}.

Your anylogy about flight is very interesting and well applied, but one difference is this; Those who tried to fly and couldn't, knew before they hit the ground that they failed. Those who believe a false doctrine die and never know they believed a lie. That encludes ALL who die. The Jesus of the Christian Bible says "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living"(Matt.22.32). The basis of the Christian faith is borrowed from Egyptian religion with all the gods rolled into one, on whom they have given the name "Jesus". That would be "another Jesus than the Apostles preached" (2 Cor.11.4). Even the picture that has depicted Jesus for most Christians is actually "Serapis, the Egyptian god of the lower world" that was first adopted by Greeks as "Osiris, the god of healing", then adopted by Christians as the Saviour of their souls after death...


It is no wonder that such astute men as Michael could not accept that Jesus as the Messiah, because he is right in his evaluation of Jesus as opposed to all that the O T foretold about the promised Messiah. If Christians want to prove their Jesus is the true Messiah to the Jews(Rom.11.15), they need to find out how to inherit the promise given to them in Rev.2.26-27. What Jew would resist that as evidence that he was the true Messiah? It is the continued belief that death is the prerequisite to heaven that keep all G-d's children in stalemate... Remember that 1 Cor.4.20 says "The kingdom of heaven is not in word but power". So far, the only power the Christian churches have is in words of arguement (Job 6.25), and what money will buy, and that is not at all the fulfilled promise (Isa.58.1).

Welcome to the board, I hope I wasn't to hard on you

Glori
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Old 09-11-2002, 11:20 AM
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Glori Glori is offline
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Michael,

I have been meditating about all that you have made known to me, and I feel great rapport with all that you say. None of the scriptures are unfamiliar to me, it is those very scriptures that gave me insight that the Christians were deceived about their Jesus. However, it did not relieve me of my belief that Yeshuah is the true Messiah. I see in Joshua that when the Ark was taken across the Jordan, it went 2000 measures before the rest of the people. That agrees with the true Messiah as the flesh Ark of G-d's strength inheriting the full promise of life 2000 measures before the massess could follow. That also agrees with Yeshua bringing the words from GD that were promised through Moses. Ps.40.7 with 68.11 fortell of Messiah coming "in the volum of - the published book". Deut.32.1-3 and Hosea 6.3 fortell of the L-rd and his doctrine coming to us as "the former and latter rain"(a two part book), and Isa.55.10-11 affirm that G-d's word is like the rain that waters the earth, to cause it to bring forth and bud", and assures that it cannot fail. The Bible as a two part book began to manifest in the 3rd century (Dan.12.12), but was not a publication until the printing press was invented, that with it not flourishing until the freedom of Religion gives place to about 2000 years. If indeed Yeshua brought the words from G-d, then "receiving them with meekness will save our souls"(Jas.1.21), as John 6.63 says those words are "the quickening spirit of life"(Ez.37.14, Ps.104.30).

I have been praying for your G-d to guide my words, I have full faith that your heart is very beautiful. I cannot vouch that my heart is beautiful, but I can vouch that I feel great beauty in my heart. I believe fully that if I inherit anything from your G-d, it will be because I have bonded with his people through love for HIM and them; I wish only to establish that bond. I do not feel that I should continue a debate with you concerning the Messiah, but rather I need to keep studying scripture, to either find that I am wrong, or to move into a better position to make the truth known. Please be sure that my heart searches only the truth, and I hold you in high regard.

Your friend,

Glori
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:47 PM
Thummim Thummim is offline
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Post A few words.

Some commentary on the quoted verse below


7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, Ps. 40: 7


...Perhaps we are reading the same book now. But nowhere is "Jesus" being mentioned in any context that we can recognise. It is definately not the NT since it is written "past tense".


11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

12 Kings of armies did flee apace: and she that tarried at home divided the spoil.

13 Though ye have lien among the pots, yet shall ye be as the wings of a dove covered with silver, and her feathers with yellow gold.

14 When the Almighty scattered kings in it, it was white as snow in Salmon.

15 The hill of God is as the hill of Bashan; an high hill as the hill of Bashan. Ps. 68: 11 - 15 KJV

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YHWH gives a command;
the women who bring the news are a great host:

"the kings and their armies are headlong in flight;
housewives are sharing the spoils;
even for you who lie among sheepfolds
there are wings of a dove sheathed in silver,
its pinions in fine gold." {perhaps the spoils of war}

When Shaddai scattered the kings,
it seemed like a snowstorm in Zalmon. Ps. 12 - 15, JPS

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{there is some difference in numbering verse between the KJV and the JPS - JEWish publication society}

--> These verses do not fortell of the messiahs coming to me. They recount something that happened in the past.

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1 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: {to nourish them?}

3 Because I will publish the name of YHWH:

{not mentioned by the letters, "YHWH" in the NT, is it too easy to connect these letters to the name of "YaHudaH", the blood guilty JEWs {Mat. 27: 25} of the NT's writers?}

ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, {"of David"? see Ex. 28: 21} his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

...There is nothing NT that I can see in these verses.

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1 Come, and let us return unto YHWH: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know YHWH: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

4 O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

--> "leaving no rain", but YHWH will heal both Ephraim and Judah with the rains that come at the begining and end of the growing seasons. The talk is of healing which is directed to the time just prior to the distruction of Jerusalem, by Babylon. Ephraim does not exist in the time of "Jesus" What follows "Jesus" is the distruction of Jerusalem and no healing rain.

5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. Hos. 6: 1 - 6

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10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

12 [B]For ye shall go out {of Babylon} with joy, {see Isa. 52: 9, 11}and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Isa. 55: 10 - 12

...This occurs 500 + years before "Jesus" who himself is followed, not by a blessing for Israel, but the curse of the Romans. These words have nothing to do with the book that the Romans put together after Constantine.

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18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

19 The meek also shall increase their joy in YHWH, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity {in YHWH's people, "vs. 22"} are cut off:

21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

22 Therefore thus saith YHWH, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale. Isa. 29: 18 - 22

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...Glori, you do have a good heart because you are willing to believe in the righteousness of YHWH's people. What other wood could be grafted into this tree and grow? How could you ever grow in the wood of YaHudaH, if you didn't believe in its righteousness?

....Michael

Last edited by Thummim; 09-12-2002 at 09:39 AM.
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  #55  
Old 09-11-2002, 09:47 PM
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Glori Glori is offline
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Thank you Michael, I will consider what you have told me. I also will try to obtain a book of Jewish scriptures, perhaps that will help me in my study.

Glori
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Old 09-13-2002, 04:51 PM
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Glori Glori is offline
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Micahel,

I have acquired a Jewish Bible. The preface says it is free of Christian enfluence. I have begun to read it, and I am praying for an open mind as I read. If I am wrong, the sooner I realize the better.

I do want to ask you a few more questions before I continue. You pointed out that Cyrus will be G-d's anointed Messiah, and of course you gave sufficient scripture to prove that. I want to know if the Messiah will actually have the name Cyrus? Also, will he be a human that G-d endows with power to lead his people? And, when he is expected?

Thank you for your patients

Glori
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Old 09-15-2002, 09:32 AM
Thummim Thummim is offline
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Lightbulb What is a messiah for anyhow?

...Glori, Cyrus existed 2500 years ago. He freed the JEWish people from captivity. Those freed from Babylon built the second temple. That is what the books of Ezra and Nehemiah are about. Cyrus gave the holy vessels that the king of Babylon had taken {II Chr. 36: 18 - 23} from the temple before he burned it, to those he freed, and asked that the temple be rebuilt. As to fortelling of another messiah to follow in the steps of Cyrus, some 500+, or 2500+ years later, that would be questionable. "Jesus" did not mirror Cyrus in any way in his time. Most of Isaiah tells of the JEWish re-inheriting of the land of Israel that was left desolate. But instead, a kind of desolation follows "Jesus", leaving the lands of Israel, mostly desolate again. The NT is not a blessing to the JEWish people. One of my chieftest arguments is that "Jesus" doesn't fit the mold that is cast of a messiah, by Isaiah. One can say that he "came" to his temple, but most of the text of the prophets {the text of the tanakh that just came into your posession} recount the blessing of the JEWish people for their future. Isaiah himself declares all Israel to be righteous in the time of Cyrus, some 500+ years before "Jesus" speaks to his peoples hurt. {Lk. 19: 43, 44}. But the messiah of Isaiah 53, is to be the peace of the JEWish people. {Isa. 53: 5, --> the people are healed} How does one fit Isa. 40: 1 - 3 into the context of the time of the New Testement? It is tried in the words of Mat. 3: 3, borrowing a line of text from Isa. 40: 3, but absolutely the "peace" declared is not conceeded. {cry to Jerusalem that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned}. But that is not what "Jesus" cries. Isa. 43: 25 + Isa. 44: 22 equals a righteous people that have paid their debt to their Eloheem. It {the redemption} has happened already and "Jesus" meets a righteous people. But does he tell them that they are righteous? Now Isa. 45: 17 decrees eternal salvation to the JEWish people in the time of Cyrus {same paragraph that Cyrus is named} and Isa. 54: 9 gives the JEWish people an Eloheem that will never be angry with his people again. This is declared to be as the covenant that Noah made with YHWH, who promised to never again destroy the world with a flood. So what has the NT done to this righteous people? Has it taken a righteous people who bear the name of YHWH and made them unrighteous to the point that the holocaust can happen? When christianity defiled the name of the JEWish people, it also defiled the name of YHWH that defends them. The loss of the knowledge of Urim and Thummim {the name of YHWH}, the incomplete name, {tome is the root of thummim and means to "make complete"} really refers to one of the twelve "lights", tribes of Israel, {"urim" means lights}, --> "YHWH, the name that is YaHudaH without its fourth letter," is the name of GD. This is the throne of Israel with the authority of GD's name upon the throne. {Ps. 89: 24} In Deut. 12: 5, YHWH says that he will "put" his name into one of the twelve tribes. The loss of this knowledge has left Israel like a dreaded soldier ready for battle, but without a weapon to fight with. Arm him, and he will destroy his enemies. Those who came out of Babylon, lost something very important. {Ez. 2: 63, Neh. 7: 65} The temple that "Jesus" came to was empty and without the presence of YHWH. There is no Shekina, and no dark clouds for the second temple. So is the second temple really built for the "name" of YHWH, as is the case with the first temple? The temple of "Jesus" is empty of the presence of YHWH. But can a man be GD? I don't think so. If there is a messiah yet to come, he will come in the name of YHWH and will wrap the JEWish people in this name, so YHWH can again be the strength of his people and their deliverer. It's not about the messiah, its about the "JEWish" people.

....Michael
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Old 09-15-2002, 11:52 AM
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Michael,

my prayer is that your people will very soon find that lost letter of YHWY's name. What a blessing it will be to see healing restored and justice accomplished. Even if I were left out of all inheritence, I would still rejoice the fulfillment, because YHWH is the ture and great G-d, and this world and all that it consists of is his handi work.

I have to admitt that I misunderstood that you thought Isaiah's Cyrus was referring to a Messiah yet to come.
I spent Sabbath reading Isaiah, Ezra and Daniel in the Jewish scriptures, and I have put myself in the mindframe that the Messiah has not come as I read. I certainly do not deny what you say about the life of a man named Jesus not reflecting Cyrus.
When I was first drawn away from the Christian religion, one of my first questions was, where is our health if we truly forgive others as we were forgiven.

Micahel, do you still keep the feast of Tabernacles? and if you do, how is it done now? Would you comment on the fact that I keep it in my back yard?

With love for the Jews and their G-d

Glori
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  #59  
Old 09-15-2002, 12:34 PM
Thummim Thummim is offline
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Glori, here is a web site to visit. Yes, sukkot is one of the chag {festivals} in the JEWish calendar. JEWs will be building their sukkot just about everywhere and inviting family.

http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday5.htm

....Michael
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  #60  
Old 09-17-2002, 01:37 PM
Malachiah Malachiah is offline
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Righteousness for Michael

Shalom in all blessing Michael.
I see all Israel as holy this day, I see in the faith of the seven sprinklings of the blood of the goat ransom on the holiest day of the year when the door is open to the holiest place. I see Michael in the midst of the congregation of the righteous and I write it. I write it under the logo that means "righteousness". (i think, correct me if i error).Bless be Michael at the far corner of the earth from Jerusalem. Holy remembrance be your portion. Appointed holy ground arise under your feet step by step into the holiness of Jerusalem. Blessed is Yahudah in holy return.
Zakar!
Malachiah James
Portland
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